Build personal wealth alongside your business

Source transcript, with paragraph breaks added for readability. Speaker identities have not been inferred. Verify quotations against the recording.

I probably gained like 50 60 pounds after that experience because I was so depressed. My first big business, right? It was not only the first million dollar business, obviously the first him and then it was just gone. It was like a thief in the night. It was just gone. And then as soon as that that was over, right, everybody turns on you. One of my investors, good friends, [music] right? He was paying a million dollars in taxes. Fast forward 6 7 8 9 months, [music] whatever it is, right? Ends up saving a million dollars in taxes. And I was mind blown when I heard that. And that's kind of what made me shift into going like there's not enough of this out [music] there. We can mitigate 60% of the AGI income and we can also mitigate 98% of the [music] capital gains. And if you do it the right way, you can actually double dip on the tax savings, which is very rare. You donate a million in there. So [music] $600,000 of a

deduction is going to come off your income. You sell it inside of that entity. So you're going to offset 98% [music] of the capital gains onto that partner. I just went to a family office conference in Beverly Hills. I was walking around that room. I was like, I am so privileged like that I actually get to be [music] here. It really is all the same stuff that we're talking about. They've just been doing it long. If you want to [music] be wealthy, get around the right people. You want consistent people in your life. Cuz when we're looking at the next 50 years, right, you want to have people are going to show up for you consistently. So, welcome to Beyond the Bottom Line. I'm Joey, your host, and this is where we pull back the curtain. How the ultra wealthy actually protect and grow their money. The stuff that your CPA or advisors never tells you. Each week, I sit down with the smartest minds in finance to uncover strategies that business owners can use

right now to keep more of what they earn and pay less in taxes legally. Today I'm joined by Jamal Hansen, president of Oton Holding Groups, a firm that operates like a family office for highincome business owners who are done just saving on taxes and start and ready to start multiplying their wealth. Jamal's been in the arena. He's been he's built businesses himself past the million dollars, watch them crash to zero, and rebuild from the ground up. So, he's been scammed, burned by partners, and pushed to the edge. And through it all, he discovered something most advisers never find and never seek, which is the real opportunity isn't just reducing your tax bill, but it's redirecting that capital into strategic acquisitions that create new income streams while providing deductions against your active income. So, we're going to dive into million-dollar tax problems that change everything, why solving taxes is only 10% of the equation, and how you can start operating like a real family office yourself. It's going to be a master class. So, if you're

a business owner, you got to keep tuned in and watch that. Welcome to the show, Jamal. Thank you. Thank you for having me on, Joey. It's a pleasure to be here. [snorts] Yes, sir. Well, let's go back to the beginning. Jamal, you got into this world because a friend of yours, right, was paying over a million dollars in taxes. Walk me through that moment and what did you see that most people miss and how did that conversation change the trajectory of both their wealth and your career? So the when when I look back at that moment and I think about it, it really starts with I I used to be a voracious networker. Okay? So I used to be running around Beverly Hills, you know, going to every single event that I could go to cuz I wanted to meet people, right? Wanted to meet lots of successful people. And during this time period, I was running the restaurant and I was raising capital for real estate ventures and things like that. So, you know,

I was I was out there, right? Um, but what happened was is I went to this networking event and I actually met a family office. Okay. Okay. I met a family office there. They the core family office and great little plug there. They're I talk to them every day. They're, you know, some of my best mentors. Um, spoke with them. They actually ended up having an event about taxes in general. Okay. So, there was a tax family office event where [snorts] they had um Are you a basketball fan? I I know basketball. I know a basketball. More of a hockey fan. I'm I'm from Canada, right? Okay. Okay. Well, so they had an event. They had an event and in Beverly Hills or at the Calvas Country Club and they had Meta World Peace from the LA Lakers there speaking about taxes and finance and stuff. And I remember I showed up to that event. It was an all day event and just it was basically six hours of every you know it was like

5 to 10 minute rapid fire taxes and everybody there had so many unique strategies that I learned. my mind was blown, right? And I had not known any of these tax strategies or any of these things yet. And that was the event where really was kind of like the catalyst for me and get diving into this world. But I met so many great people, tax strategists alike, right? Doing different all sorts of different strategies. And you know, fast forward to where one of my investors, good friends, right? I I found out he was paying a million dollars in taxes. And I was like, "Oh, okay. Well, I just went to this event. I learned all these different strategies like let's see what we can do, right? And you know, after kind of breaking getting into it, right, with some of the people that I met from that event, right, fast forward 6 7 8 9 months, whatever it is, right, ends up saving a million dollars in taxes. And I was mind blown when I

when I when I heard that and when I figured that out. And that's kind of what made me shift into going like we I there's not enough of this out there. I'm very privileged to to know these things and to have learned these things so I need to go share this with the world kind of thing. And that's kind of what I got out of that experience is he you know we started utilizing he his he's a very savvy guy a very savvy accredited investor runs a he's a tech guy tech companies. So his his strategies was heavily investments. So it was a lot of investment loss strategies, mitigating capital gains, real estate, oil and gas, um things things such as that is what he was do doing for the um income uh losses. So it was it was an interesting strategy though. He was with the million dollars and then so yeah, so that was pretty much how I went with that. You know, he's he did a lot of investment strategies to mitigate

the taxes. And how long ago was that that event? That was oh almost two years ago. Two years ago. So you went there and you figured out that it was a lot of strategies that people didn't know about to help reduce taxes. Then you had that friend. You applied it to them and they immediately saw those tax that within that year. Yes. Yeah. Within that year. Yeah. And then it was like what else can we do? It was like what else can we do when we look at the situation? And then that's when I started diving deeper and really understanding these concepts when we look at taxes cuz because the way it's been explained to me and the way I explain it to clients, right, is you know we have two different buckets, right? We have our nickel and dime tax strategies, right? Which everybody's familiar with those, you know, that that's I'm going to buy a car or buy a truck, lease it, lease this, you know, get a 30 cent deduction, whatever it

is. Um, you know, I'm going to write off my meals and stuff about, right? Yeah. It's all all that boring stuff. It's it's all those those things that nickel and dime you and they add up, right? And they're great strategies and everybody does them. But when we're talking about really mitigating taxes on a much larger scale, we're talking about three different laws. Okay? We're talking about charitable law, we're talking about trust law, and we're talking about investment law. That's how that's how we look at it. Now, people use investment law every day. They just don't think about it, right? A retirement account, that is investment law, believe it or not, right? And when you do it inside of your business, right, you can get massive deductions for doing so. Um, now charitable law is a really cool strategy that I like to utilize for high net worth individuals. preferably I would say making like 500,000 a year in income or if they have high capital gains because what we can do in those strategies is

we can mitigate 60% of the AGI income that we can get a 60% deduction off their income and [snorts] we can also mitigate 98% of the capital gains and what happens through that as well is you can actually if you do it the right way you can actually double dip up on the tax savings which is very rare, right? It's very rare that you can get a tax deduction and you can also mitigate on the you know exiting out of that asset. So the way that that strategy works is we set up a for-profit LLC. Mhm. Okay. And we partner that or we're going to pretend you're the client, right? Y we're going to give you 2% of the class A shares. Okay. Okay. So you have 2% of the class A shares. We're going to partner you with a 5013C donor adise fund. Okay. Yep. Now, that partner is going to own 98% of that entity, but they own class B shares. So, as the class A shareholder, right, you have full management of

the LLC. You have full control of the bank accounts, full everything. Right? [snorts] Now, what happens is you as the client is say, "I'm gonna make an irrevocable donation to this entity." Okay? Irrevocable. Yep. [snorts] So, you're going to donate, let's just say it's a million dollar. You donate a million dollars in there. So, $600,000 of a deduction is going to come off your income. Okay. Y and then let's say it's a piece of real estate. So, now you sell it inside of that entity. You only own 2% of it, right? Y. So, you're going to offset 98% of the capital gains onto that partner, that donor advice fund. Okay? So, now you have effectively gotten a 60% deduction for contributing to it. And then on the back end, when you sell that, you've gotten a 98% capital gains taxree. Okay. Okay. Now, here's here's the here's the caveat. Right? Now, you have all this money sitting inside of this LLC, which you have earmarked for charity, right? you've donated it, but you want that

money out, right? I mean, I don't know a lot of people who are just like, "Yeah, [snorts] lot a lot of people are charitable, [clears throat] but not that charitable, right?" Like, u we're talking about a million bucks there. So, what we do though is we can do what's called an asset swap. So, you have full control. It's as simple as putting that money in the bank account today and tomorrow you move that money back to your personal account. Okay? [snorts] And then what we swap it with is we swap it with a highly leveraged asset such as bank funded life insurance. And that's how people are able to get a 10 25x leverage on their money and they pull it out and what happens is is the life insurance one day upon death will pay back the charity and make them whole. [clears throat] So that's big picture highle view of how that strategy works. It is a great strategy. Um it's called the TAC TAC tax advantage corporation. What I will say it's

not so much a money mind thing. It's not a money thing cuz I see people who have millions of dollars do it and they do it wrong. It's a mindset thing. It really is. And you have to have the right mindset going into it with I want to be intentional about building wealth. I want to do this for the long term and I want, you know, I I want to grow this money taxree and I'm going to pull it utilize this structure to do that. Now, that's that's the trickiest part with it, right? If you have the mindset and not necessarily the money thing, we can the money thing will come through just doing the strategy the right way. Yes. So, but the hardest thing is when you have the don't have the mindset to doing it and you're you're just not treating it. You're not utilizing it the best way for your maximum benefit. And that is frustrating. I will say so. And is that is that why you say that that's the way

to kind of double dip in tax savings? That's one of the strategy to do that. If you really want to double dip, that's probably the best way to double dip. Now, a lot of people like they want to get into these. Now, that's a big that's a bigger thing, right? And that's not something I mean, if you have a if you're paying $50,000 in taxes, I can't really necessarily recommend it unless you have the mindset of like I'm really going to go build I want to go multiply my money, right? And and I don't mean like I I want to let it go compound in the markets or whatever it is, right? You have to be aggressive. You have to go multiply your money. You have to be a true operator slash you know entrepreneur and really get get after it for in my opinion for you to have the highest success with it. Yeah. And from my understanding that's what like the again we talk a lot about that what the ultra wealthy has

been doing forever right and now those strategies are finally kind of trickling down to everybody right that has access to that. Um and again disclaimer that we always put disclaimers everywhere but like these are stuff that only the licensed expert licensed professionals. So obviously make sure to look into that and and and and that it's the right thing for you. It's different for every business. There's no guaranteed results, right? So of course you got to look at it yourself and consult people like Jamal that can help you out with that. But these are just examples of what you've you've helped others others do. And is that one of the things you did for that going back to that guy that that was paying a million dollar in taxes? Was that one of the strategies or was it something else? That that is Yeah, that was that was one of the strategies that we did as well. Yes. combined with some investment strategies such as oil and gas and things like that. Yeah, that's why there's

it's a it's a sequencing of things, right? A lot of people are looking for that that that silver bullet, right? Well, it's it's it's more a couple of golden BBs that that makes the whole thing work properly, right? Is do would you agree with that? I would I would 100% agree with it, right? cuz it really is like the way I look at it when we when we start to like really seriously engage clients is we have to build that foundation and it's and and we really have to build it up and that doesn't come in in you know a month or two that's going to take you know that takes significant amount of time of pouring into them investing time with them talking to them on the phone helping them unpack these concepts cuz they're you know not everybody is in this industry like us right They don't talk about these concepts every day. So, they're entirely foreign, right? And it goes back to mindset, right? The people who have the mindset and the

desire and the willingness that I want to learn these things are going to have significant success. But we have to build the foundation. So, we start piecing things together to get them where they want to go, right? Just like anything, right? We have to build it brick by brick to get to have something significant. It's not an overnight quick fix, one thing. I can just do this one thing and I'm done. No, we have to start looking at everything. It's a lot of work and most people I think underestimate how much effort goes into it to actually mitigating their taxes. Like it I think would you think would you think that's fair to say too? Like I mean they think it's a quick fix. They like it's not. Well, that's why like a lot every that's in every industries, right? Like every every time there is a solution that comes out like look at right [clears throat] out there like is do you is it is it easier to sell? Um, all right. You're going

to need to follow this threemonth diet plan, nutrition plan, this gym workout, this sleep schedule, or hey, just take this [laughter] and start putting insulin into your body and you lose you're going to lose weight. Every I think we're made we're conditioned to look at that. So that's why um but when when we're looking at bigger problems like especially people with six figure, seven figure tax bills, like there needs to be a certain degree of patience there because it's a huge amount. It's probably the most amount of money. It's probably the the place where you spend the most amount of money of your net worth every year is to taxes at that level, right? So, it's worth it to kind of go into it and make sure we do the the right thing there. Um, you you only got to know those those those strategies two years ago and you're a licensed adviser, right? Correct. Why do you think why do you think it's so like unheard of? Um, and imagine a business owner that's

not even in this world that doesn't have access that just listens to their CPA or just normal advice. like why is there so much a disconnect in your opinion? I to be to be honest I think about it all the time that and that's a great question and it really like I feel so privileged to be I think part of part of it's where I'm located like I I'm located in a very hot spot for um you know obviously I'm I'm in Orange County so I'm right there next to LA so many entrepreneurs right I'm exposed to entrepreneurs everywhere startups here venture capital here you know I was in entertainment as well I was in hospitality. I, you know, I owned restaurants, right? So, like I have gotten to experience a lot of different things and I can say for a fact it's not really this stuff that we do is not widespread. It's not. But I mean, I would think like I I I don't really know why it's kind of siloed. I think,

you know, it's just a lot of people [sighs and gasps] I would say they just don't know. It's they just don't know. And then not everybody wants to take the initi the initiative to really learn these strategies, right? Yeah. You know, cuz they're not they're not simple. It's not it's not like and a lot of times like what I see happens when I get on calls with CPAs and other adviserss and stuff, right? They either they either get it or they don't get it. It's pretty it's pretty like and if they don't get it depending on them right they might strike against it like they might 180 against it completely like I I hate this like I don't even want to look at it I I can't approve this at all like don't even talk to me about this d like they completely just remove themselves from the situation and it's actually pretty immature because you know that's actually happening with another um prospective client right now with a case that I'm working on And

you know the CPA just threw his hands up. He's like I don't want any part of it. Like the from the moment we got on the call right it's very aggressive towards us to the adviserss right who do this and you know refusing to I don't want to say accept responsibility but you know as a CPA I do feel that you still have responsibility to help your clients mitigate their taxes. And that's that's what I think a lot of CPAs don't feel that accountability or that responsibility maybe to where I should be doing more for my clients. And I think it's just kind of the way they think in general is [snorts] they don't really think about those things. It's more the compliance mindset, you know, head down, this is what you owe, right? But and what we do, right, you know, we are very heavily focused on service. Yeah. you know, I mean, we we are servicing clients constantly, constantly trying to improve their lives. So, it's just it's not so much we're just

doing a a task, a job task for them. We we are re coming into their lives and trying to improve every aspect that we can through through one simple um lever, which is just finance and banking and and this stuff, right? It's how do we improve their life by showing them a better way to do things that they haven't seen before, right? Yeah. So, yeah. Do you think a big thing of that is probably again, you talk about compliance. I think a lot of business owners are scared because they hear a lot and I think I was talking with Carlos on the last episode in the US and he was saying that the IRS actually does publicity and and propaganda on when it comes to taxes to make people feel like they're [laughter] going to get caught if they do something wrong, right? it goes against them, but it's all the strategy you're talking about is in is in the tax code. Um, so what how do you make sure that everything you're doing is

like in 100% total legality and audit proof and there's absolutely there's no risk when you when when you put that how do you absolutely make sure that it goes within those laws? I I love that you said that cuz that was so funny [laughter] cuz it it it is so true. It it really is like um I I just got off the phone with a client last week and they're like are we don't want to get in trouble, right? Like we we're like like they're they're coming from a W2 mindset too. So we're transitioning them to business owners. But you know it that is I think Carlos was right on when he said that like 100 100% spot on. There is some sort of propaganda that people believe I'm going to get in trouble. I'm going to go to jail. I'm going to like they're they're they have been I don't want to say I'm a big I'm a big education guy and and not necessarily in the traditional sense like I I read a

lot of my own as opposed to just through the schooling systems like I think the schooling systems in general have failed you know failed America but I mean that's a whole another topic right? Yeah. But I mean, but really I think you know people have been led to believe that there's certain realities or truths to the world that just aren't they're non-existent. But but to get back to your question, right, the way that we I first the one thing that I'll do is I I won't do anything that I can't stand behind. That's that's number one, right? I I know there are riskier strategies out there. I'm not comfortable doing those and I'll tell people straight up. And another thing with with the strategies themselves, I know on my end and on my team's end, we're not going to do anything that's going to interrupt that. Yeah. That's going to get them in trouble. However, what I can say is what [snorts] it really is is coaching people so they don't get themselves in trouble.

Yeah. Because sometimes with these strategies, right, for example, charitable strategy, there's no self-deing, right? We see people get caught. Trump got caught for this year, right? You can't self-deming. There's no recycling, right? So, and people and I've had multiple times where I talk to people and I, you know, I share with them the strategy. First thing they want to do is I want to open up my own foundation and I want to go, you know, I want to just go, you know, do it in the most unlegitimate way. And I'm like, we can't do that. Like that's you're you're just going to be a red flag for the IRS. it really. And so that's it's kind of blending people's fictions and you have to kind of crush their fictions, you know, gently, albeit, but you have to kind of tell them that's not really what we're doing here. And then you have to show them the better way. But then also it's, you know, I it takes, you know, it really does take a village

to get some of these strategies utilized. Um I'm I obviously I think I'm very intelligent. I'm very smart, right? you know, but I have a whole team of people beside me that I'm constantly on the phone with. I'm constantly on the Zooms. I have my actuaries. I have my CPAs, right? I have my tax team, right? I have my, you know, I have, you know, my insurance guys. I have all these different, you know, points of contact that I have to go back and forth just to figure out what's best for the client. and and they'll and it could be and it my my team probably hates me cuz I blow up cuz I I I mean there's times where I'm on the I'm booking a Zoom call or calling them every other day, right? Or every day to talk to them about the situations. But that's what it takes to really make sure that we're protected and that they're I don't want to open anybody up and also in worst case scenario if anything

ever does open up I'm going to stand there and fight for them as well, right? As will my team. But it it's really I would say the biggest thing is is not I won't touch things that I don't I'm not familiar with or or don't understand. However, I'm always that's constantly that um I'll say that that line in the sand is always moving cuz I'm always adding new things. I'm always learning new things, right? So that line's always moving. But really, it's making sure that the team that I I have a solid team and if anything does happen, right, we're protected. I know that I was going back and forth, back and forth to every single situation and putting the client in the best position so they understand everything. And number one, too, I think the biggest thing is too is really building that trust with the client because it's not necessarily, you know, there in a lot of the strategies that we do, it comes with a lot of trust. Yeah. It's not it's

not it's it's not so much like I mean that you're going to fully because they're so complex and when and it's the same thing when in their industries too, right? They've done it a thousand uh you know 10,000 hours or whatever, right? So they're not going to understand these things in one meeting or two meetings, right? It takes time. They're going to have to kind of get in the car and start going down the road before they really fully understand where we're going. And then once we're down going down the road, right, we start adding more things on there and then that it all starts to kind of come together. But that just takes time and it takes a lot of trust. And that's why I focus, you know, you know, my business partner Mitch and I, we focus heavily on really building trust because we we this this is all the things that we do are very very long term, right? We are we are in their lives until until they die. So it

it's heavy because you're you're accessing essentially a network, right? Again, you're not you're not by yourself doing this. And if if you're encountering someone that they're by themselves doing this, well, you you should have some questions to ask because it it is it is you have to tackle the legal stuff, right? The finance stuff, uh the the when when you're going to die, right? All the retirement. So, there's a bunch of different angles that you need to attack, which that's why you need to access a family office or a team or someone that has all of those um all of those assets and and things that goes into strategies like this. And that's how you make sure that you're operating in total legality cuz their reputation is at risk as well. Um so no, you're totally right on that. And and I want to get into what you said earlier as well that um solving tax, right, your tax challenge is only 10% of the puzzle, right? And most business owners are obsessed with cutting

their tax bill. And a lot of people are listening to listening to this show because of that. Um so why do you say it's only 10%. What's the other 90% they're missing? I mean there so what I would say like taxes are [clears throat] they feel like the biggest piece in the world and they are right over you know if you're paying $100,000 a year over a decade that's a million bucks right so that's a lot of money right but you know the biggest thing I would say is we have to figure out a lot of people I feel like a lot of especially you know they get in this situation where they're just kind of they're very stagnated y and you know [snorts] and as we you know as we all know in entrepreneurship, right, we get very bored, right? We have shiny object syndrome. We want to go run around to the next hottest and coolest thing. And I hear it all the time, right? And these people, I see it every day.

People making money doing the most, you know, mundane or boring things or, you know, all sorts of things, right? And, you know, their first thought is, "Oh, I want to go do this. I want to go do that. I want to go do." And it's like, no, it's And especially when they've already proven that they can do one thing. like they've proven they can do it and I see it all the time. And I think what a lot of people need to really focus on is how do I scale whatever I'm doing. It's really scaling what I'm doing and really thinking with that mindset right that's why I say taxes are like if you get the mindset the taxes are the easiest part by far. [snorts] The hardest thing is is teaching people the mindset of how are we going to build wealth so it's not only you know multiplying your money very effectively but it's sustainable across decades right we want it to be sustainable we we want it to live you know we

want them to be set up so well that they you know and also not in a way where like I'm a very big because of I used to raise capital and stuff right I I'm big on like I want to push people to to do a lot of Like especially in this day and age with all the knowledge and information out there, right? Yeah. There's not a whole lot of things you can't do. Yeah. Right. So, but they not might not necessarily have the courage or understand or and what they need to do is they need to figure out how to partner with good people. But, um, what I would say though is it's it's so much more mindset and how do we build how do we really build wealth, right? And it's really phil philosophically we have to think about those questions. Why are we doing this? What is the purpose of doing this? Right? or are we just doing this just cuz cuz there's a lot of people too that just they're just

running a race that they don't even know why they're doing it right. There's really no why. There's no reason. There's nothing. And they think I solve my tax problem. I'm going to be good and it doesn't necessarily change anything cuz they don't have they don't have the philosophy, they don't have the character to sustain that. So for those business owners that do have that big tax problem, yes, of course, solving that is a big piece, but what what would you say they should focus on uh for that 90%. That 90%. So what I think they should focus on, right, is I think really when we think about it is they really it goes a lot of what I talk about it sounds so cliche, right? It it's mindset. It's what is my mindset around this? Why am I doing this? Right? Um, I see people every day who are super super successful, lots and lots of money. They're still running this this this race and they don't there's no rhyme or reason, right? And generally

those are the people too and the reason I say this, right? Those are the people who at the end of the day because they don't get it or something's not clicking, right? They don't have the right mindset built around what we're doing is they just say, "I give up and I'll pay the taxes to the IRS." Right? Those are those people, right? So really, it's really having that mindset that I want to learn, I want to grow, I want to develop this just as much as I develop everything else in my business, right? So, you know, that's good. I think I I get what you're saying because I think what's clicking for me right now is that a lot of people and again, I was like that everybody and I'm I'm also thinking sometimes like that. It's always like again the quick fix, right? Like right now, what can I do now? But what you're saying is that the most important thing is like what you're going to do for the rest of your life.

And if especially if you're a business owner, you got to think about not only yourself, but your family, your legacy, your succession, your retirement. You're not going to operate your business for the rest of your life until you're 90 years old. Right? There's got to be a plan in place. And when the people think about, oh, my tax challenge right now, right now, right now, well, it blinds them about the bigger savings they could be doing by being more patient and having better holistic strategies in place that's going to help them for the rest of their life, right? Yeah. I mean, 100%. Cuz I I was looking I was doing the math on it with a client the other day on the phone and I was like, "You guys are going to retire with like 15 million." Yeah. And I was like and they like and it like they didn't they couldn't fathom like they're starting to get to wrap their heads around it. But I was just like it's not it's not complex, right?

But it starts with building the foundation and then kind of like once we look at like when I think about their trajectory of what they're going to do, I mean in the next 15 20 years, right? That's where they're going to be. Yeah. Like it's not it's not and what I will say right the reason that they're going to be there too is cuz they have the discipline. They are they are voracious savers and they they are voracious at living below their means, right? They live out in the country in Pennsylvania. Like they're going to do so many great things. But that's like I look at it, I'm like, it's not that hard to go build a bunch of money. It's really not. But it's it's thinking about these deeper philosophical questions. Why am I doing this? What is the purpose? Right? Where how am I mitigating risk along the way? How am I taking this and getting and also being leveraging it in the appropriate ways, right? you know cuz I we have to

it's mean when I think about wealth right I think about three concepts that's it right I mean outside of mindset obviously but I [clears throat] think about number one we need specific knowledge right we [snorts] need some sort of specific knowledge and it could be so it it could be industry specific it could be I know how to build and scale a business specific right I know how to buy a business it could be whatever it is right you have to have some sort of knowledge right number two we have to have account accountability Right. Yep. We have to be accountable to our partners, our capital, you know, our investors, right? Whatever it is, right? We have to have accountability to our staff, to oursel, you know, I'm taking accountability to do this, right? Whatever it is. And then we have to have leverage, right? And that could be capital, that could be time, that could be people. Like it could be media, right? It could be all sorts of things, right? So, we have

to use these things to build wealth. And during that whole path, right, the bigger questions, the 90%, right, is is all those things that you said is is what what's going to happen? How do I create passive income, right? Cuz the first thing I really get into like once we've engaged the client, too, is so we need to replace your income. And I don't and I and my goal too isn't to necessarily some people it it we can push it out, but some people it's like we need to do it today cuz they're, you know, they're in their 50s, right? So we need to we need to figure out how to replace their income in the next five years, right? You know that's serious, right? And in order to do that, right, we have to take higher amounts of risk, right? [snorts] So if we're going to do that, then we have to think about it like, okay, so how are we going to mitigate risk so we protect them? God forbid something does go

wrong, right? So those are the things that I'm thinking about, right? And the greater questions is, you know, I mean there's people like cuz here's here's an example, right? This is just when people see what what happens with like most for this is like a young people thing but like with young people for example right they're like I'm 29 years old you know I want to retire at 50 right and here's what people are doing right they don't think about what they're doing right and I'm like so are how are you going to do that well I have my 401k well it's like you want to retire at 50 Yeah. So, yeah, I sell. Well, you can't touch that money. So, I'm maxing out my 401k though. So, but they're maxing it out thinking that they can touch that money and they still haven't. And like and so they're doing all these things, right? And that's why it's like it doesn't nothing really matters besides the mindset. It's like really figuring out what do we

want and what are we doing and like thinking like I could if I have the right mindset, I could replace my income in the next two years, three years, right? And that's people, it's hard for a lot of people to wrap their minds around that. And a lot of people too, what I'll say is they have the wrong mindset when they were like they want to be so involved in the business like they want to give themselves a job. And you know, they have big businesses too. I don't get it sometimes. Like they they don't want to remove themselves from the business and scale it up because they're so like, you know, I see that a lot too. It happens a lot. You know, I've built this thing, right? I I don't want to let go of the reigns, right? You you see it every day, I'm sure, right? You guys deal with it, too. Everybody deals with it when they build a businesses. They have to figure out how to step away so I

can actually grow the business. But, you know, so those are the things that a lot of people get stuck in those cycles and it's hard to get out and you know, the longer you stay in that, right? Next thing you know, you're you're in your 60s and you're like, well, what did I just do all this for? I you know and another thing that too that you know kind of grinds my gears right is when people and I experienced this right is you invest so heavily into your business but you're not pulling any money out right and then what happens right I've experienced it you scaled the business up to 10 million and then it it imploded right there was no money by the end of it like it was gone it was evaporated right and people people are always like they don't think that could happen and I was thinking about it before this this morning I was anything could happen like anything whether it's a death whether you get sick whether you know

the business the market entirely shifts whether AI takes up whatever you know we don't know right so you have to kind of be able to mitigate risk and it it's a fine line though it really is a fine line you have to balance multiple different things and figure out how to pull money out but also to how to you know scale the business simultaneously but you know so I just said a lot there that was a lot that's good [laughter] that was that was spot on Jamal that was spot on and I totally agree agree with every single word you say cuz at the end I think again you said it's cliche but it's the truth like everything you've said in the past few minutes it's all all comes down to your mindset if you have that dialed in if you know your northstar and you align everything and you put your compass being that northstar then things will fall down will f fall fall down in places for you right so um but I

want I want to touch on the the the 10 million business $10 million business you talked about I think that could be valuable for the people watching you said again that you've built businesses to tell million, watch them crash to zero. So, without getting into too much of the pain because I'm sure it uh wasn't too too too easy, right? That was incredibly traumatic. Incredibly [laughter] traumatic. That was that was so traumatic. I I probably gained like let me just like I probably gained like 50 60 lbs after that experience go because I was so depressed. It It was a very depressing thing. And you know, to be honest too, it was also it was my first big business, right? And it would not it was not it was not only the first million dollar business. It was the first you know obviously the first himo and I was like and then it was just gone. It was like it was like a thief in the night. It was just gone. And you're just like

and then now you're liquidating everything. You're pulling everything out, right? And you're just like wow. And then all this these ideas and things the way you know just [snorts] and then as soon as that that was over, right? Everybody turns on you, right? everybody, you know, and you know, you're just not [clears throat] But the biggest lesson that I would say that I took away from that, you know, and it's it's one of the biggest things that I talk about with people, too, is we have to mitigate risk. Mhm. We have to figure out how to mitigate risk in situations, right? Because you can be doing extremely well, right, by all standards, right? You know, it sounds good, right? $10 million business, right? Sounds good, right? But at the end of the day, if you're taking if you're not taking any money out, pulling any money out, you are leaving yourself incredibly vulnerable to things that you can't control, right? Co, right? Things things happen all the time that we can't control. So, we have

to mitigate risk and we have to do it in an effective way and we have to put money away and we have to, you know, a big thing that I'm, you know, big on, right, is, you know, I a lot of things that I talk about with with clients, right, is scaling. Like, we want to scale this, right? It's not putting it all into one entity, right? We have to spread that risk out. We have to transfer that risk, right? We have to spread it, right? It's like a lot of people, they think like they're thinking too small and they're thinking like I want to have one perfect one or one two perfect one. It's like that doesn't exist, right? I'd rather have 10 that are doing the same revenue. So, when one of them falls off, it's okay. Yeah. like like it's so but people get so wrapped up into these perfection and they get so wrapped up into these like like I seen it like perfection is not going to it's not going

to be there so just get over it right and do the best you can and spread and what you want and I love this is why I'm sure you're a big Horoszi guy too like myself 100% hold on hold on yeah like I love this like I love [laughter] I love big on horos one right there big on hormosi but like one of other things, right? It's volume, right? People, we have to do more volume. And that's neglects luck, right? That's what he says. Yep. And so, I mean, why do one if there's a way to do 10 of them or 20 of them or 30 of them, right? And whatever it is, you're going to have much more success. And that's what I try to really talk to people about. And you know they they kind of get in their own way because they don't think about it's kind of goes back to that I want to be working you know I want to be the guy right in the business or I want

to be the girl or whatever it is right you know or it's or it's these I guess I would say like these delusions [snorts] or fantasies like oh I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that and like it's you know so what I like to do is I like to complement that. So, what I'm actually actively working on with a few of my clients right now is partnering with them on things. Um, for example, I have a dentist client, right? Doesn't know anything about business. Nothing. Um, but he's a fivestar dentist. Yeah. Which which I'll never be. Yeah. Which is good. [laughter] [snorts] But that's that's good. That's what makes it work though is cuz he doesn't understand business. He doesn't understand what we're doing. But if you take him partner and this is where partners come in, right? You want to partner with good people, right? And you put that together to where now you don't have to run the business and the clinical side. You can only f you can

focus on the clinical side, right? You can focus on finding and training another fivestar tennis, right? But people don't think like that, right? A lot of people another thing is like I actually it's it's very surprising to me because I'm so used to having partners and stuff. Yeah. I'm sure you are too. you know, coming from where you're where you're at. But a lot of the people I talk to, they just they just don't have partners. It's actually kind of surprising. Like they're just they're very like they're semi very successful on their own. But I'm like, [clears throat] you could accelerate this timeline and you could have done that like like people just but they don't trust people, right? So the biggest thing is like they got to and they're like and I was talking to a vet the other day about it and she's like, "Where do I find them? Where do I [laughter] I'm like I don't know." Like yeah, for sure. like you just meet people and it's people right and you

got to talk to them and you got to make sure that hey can I work with this person hey do I are they bringing something unique to the situation are they bringing what value are they bringing right it's things like that but [snorts] you know because everybody's got to you know bring something to the equation otherwise it doesn't work but I mean I'm so used to partners that I'm surprised that like a lot of people I talk to it's totally foreign like like they yeah same thing for me like I've of all the businesses I've built It's always been with with a partner or two or three, right? You got to be careful with the amount sometimes because it's hard to align values, mission, vision with multiple people, but at least finding someone that that can complement because we all have strengths and weakness weaknesses. So, you got to find who's who can compliment you on that. And you you said you said as well again so clients leveraging their network, leveraging their knowledge, their

accountability to unlock opportunities that they can't see on their own. give us an example of how that works in real time maybe that you've done on your end or for a client as well. So I would say I would say the way that works in real time for example is people are sitting on gold mines and they don't realize it right. Um, [clears throat] so one of the one of the cases that or clients that comes to mind is a mental health doctor in Florida. Okay. She has built an amazing business. Okay. And what we are doing is we are going out there and we are getting she doesn't understand how the whole process of buying and acquiring businesses. She doesn't get it. But what she wants is she wants to get struggling businesses under her belt. And she wants to take those and wrap them all up together, right? And do a rollup. Y, right? She wants to roll them all together. Roll them up. Go sell them for 10 20 million bucks. Take

take the exit, right? Move on to the next one and to the next one, right? Um, and those are the things though she's not she's unable to do those things on her own though. So, she has to leverage me. She has to leverage the tax team. She has to leverage the attorneys, right? She has to leverage the financing team, right? To help get the financing through the SBA, right? You know, the bank. Okay? So, it's those things, right? And I could get even there's a [snorts] crazy case study that um one of my partners and I have been working on for years. It's so wrapped into so much. It's so crazy. But um those are the things though is we have to leverage. Nobody's going to know it all, right? However, there's certain people that I say you want to find good people that are good guides, right? Yep. That'll guide you to the right answers, right? And not try to like necessarily give you the right answer or, you know, kind of force feed

it, right? It's you want to find people that are going to help you find the right answer for you cuz everybody wants different things, right? You know, some people they want to go invest in real estate, right? Some people are like oil and gas, right? Some people are like, you know, hey, I want to go buy businesses, right? Some people, oh, I want I want to go, you know, invest in VC or startups, right? And it's like I I wouldn't, but okay, [clears throat] you know, like, you know, so everybody it's it's leveraging what they want to do, right? And creating that, you know, it's all the same thing, right? To me, to me, honestly, it doesn't really matter what we're doing, right? It's all the same, right? We have to figure out how they need to understand how to go get financing for it. They need to understand how to mitigate risk. They need to understand that they shouldn't go do all this stuff on their own, right? I have a lot of wealthy

clients. I have people who don't want to go do their own things, but they would love to be a partner, like an LP in a deal, right? You know, they have capital. They want to deploy it, right? But the thing is, and here's the the caveat that for that for me, right? if I'm going to because I used to raise capital, right? And I've seen good things happen from it. I've seen bad things happen from it. Um, you know, millions of dollars of losses and I've seen, you know, millions of dollars of gains, right? So, it goes kind of, you know, both ways. But the big thing that I am on that, right, is I can't go to a client of mine and get their money until I fully until I full fully can trust you with their money. And that comes from me pouring into them, right? Yeah. And also setting the structure of everything has to be set up properly. But it's it's things like that. Like people they really overthink it, right?

Like you talk to someone like we can go raise money for you if you really want. Like I know I know a firm that I can go like if somebody wants to go raise a $25 million fund. I know a firm that we can go to right now. We're going to pay let's just say under a million bucks and 12 months later we'll have a 25 million bucks raised. I mean, is that a good deal? To me, that's a good deal. You spend a mill, you spend a little under a mill, you get 25 mil, right? So, I'm like I'm like, and I can go get I could make a couple calls, right? And we can get some money right now. But the thing is though is and people don't they don't understand that, right? They're so like just head down, right? Working working hard, right? And it's obviously those things aren't easy, right? You have to build relationships. You have to build trust, right? To be able to do that stuff. But I mean

that's like people over they unnecessarily I think I feel like they complicate things right and it's some ego maybe some pride but it's really like you have to just if you use leverage you will succeed right leverage other people's money right leverage whether that's the bank whether it's a private investor right leverage other people's time right leverage other people's knowledge right you know so but people need to understand Those are the things they have to use. They have to use those things in order to be able to get to where they want to go, right? A thousand%. And let's say, let's say a business owner watching this or just a high net worth uh individual paying over six figures in taxes every year and they want to explore this path and they got inspired by what you talked about uh today on this show. What's the first conversation they need to have or the first question they need to ask themselves to get clear on the next step? [snorts] Oh my, that's that's a tough

question. That is that is a genuinely tough question. And the reason why I say that's a tough question is because everybody's so different, right? And um everything really just I let it kind of flow. I try not to So I really try not to overwhelm people. Yeah. Um because it I mean I obviously I have ADHD like you know and I have to really you know tame it down. my business partner, Mitch, she used ADHD's off the wall, but um you know, I have to tame it down. But I used to, you know, obviously I used to when I was younger, when I was a kid, right? I used to dump as much. But it's it's hard to dump on people cuz they just don't understand it, right? So, you really have to kind of I would say is what's your focus today, right? It's really like figuring out what's people's focus on today and asking themselves is, you know, is is it the taxes, right? Is are taxes my biggest issue? is tax is

a piece of the problem right and [clears throat] it's so it's really getting clear on what you know identifying and admitting you know hey I have this I have this you know I have this problem or challenge or whatever you want to call it right and I want to solve it but I also care about these deeper questions right and it's it's really thinking about that you know and and really looking at it from that perspective or that frame or that lens right is I I have this challenge right I there's so much information out there, right? There's not a lot of what I'll say, right? And thinking about who who do I want to work with, right? Yeah. And cuz there's so many people out there, and I hear it all the time, right? You know, that'll just take their money and kind of I don't want to say run necessarily, but I mean it they they will, right? There's there's a lot of people out there, you know, who they naturally want to

just kind of follow what other people are doing. Yep. And I would say that's why I have a lot of success in the community, right? We're we're the I mean we invest heavily in clients before they invest in us. Like that's just a fact. Like like we we invest we believe in them so much more than they can even believe in us. So by the time they do end up believing in us, right? They just they they have like so you know I mean we're spending you know we we're flying crisscross c across the country every other week right and taking them to dinner and doing these nice things right and really like so we care deeply but I would say it's really finding people it's not so much [snorts] like if you have these these things right it's finding people that you really want to work with right cuz like this isn't like a short-term thing like I don't I'm not looking to work with people if it's you know we we talk one

time and it's done, right? Like I genuinely pour into my clients. Um, and I I'm big on that cuz in order to take action, right, and to have actual results, right? We have to take massive action, right? So that's why I pour into them so much. And that's why we're we're so, you know, it's we have to knock one thing down, right? Obviously, I build like a framework in my head of what I want to do. Yeah. And some of that is shared with them. Some of them it's it's not shared with them yet because I need them to focus. But um it's really knocking things down one at a time like and and then when they bring up more things it might add more to the list, right? But I would say the biggest thing is really thinking about, hey, who do I want to work with? What type of advisor or strategist do I want to work with, right? Um you know, do I want to work with someone that I can pick

up the phone and call and it's like that, right? or, you know, do I want to work with, you know, a more, you know, what I'll say is is my team and I, right, we're more we're more boutique. Um, so we kind of we're able to do, you know, we're 24/7 pretty much. So, we're pretty active. A lot of people that, you know, you work with, and I see it all the time cuz I work with bigger firms, right? I work with a lot of bigger firms, too. So, it's really hard to get a hold of people and to get things done because there's so many there's so many like like one of my, you know, top CPAs has 6,000 clients. Mhm. Yeah. How do you want to be the like personalized with that? So, there is no like so there is really no personal relationship. Yeah. That you can have with them, you know, which is fine, right? You don't necessarily need one, but that's what is it's finding people though like you have

to think about those things, right? Cuz a lot of people and I hear it all the time. I my CPA is not doing this, my this ain't doing that, right? And it's it's not so much I need to, you know, it's just you got to have a team, right? Especially in this day and age with so much, you know, disinformation or misinformation, right? You need to have a team. You need to have different people. Like you want to find like I guess the way I kind of look at myself, right, is is obviously I'm, you know, I know a lot and I'm I'm very intelligent too, but I still am, you know, in many ways a quarterback, too. I'm not necessarily the guy who's going to take the ball running down the field every single time, right? Yeah. So, I mean, it's it's really thinking about those things, too, is like I even I know when to say, "Hey, I'm going to the next level to grab my, you know, to figure this out, right?"

So, yeah, you know, but the thing that they get, right, is you want someone who's going to work with you constantly, like not just kind of pass you around and who who's genuinely invested in your success, right? That's what that's at least that's what I want, you know, is I want someone who's invested in my success who's who's you know blowing me like I you know to the point where I don't want to answer their phone calls they're calling me so much like cuz we're getting stuff done right and like I want to get stuff done like I don't want to like sit on stuff you know a lot of what people need is they and it's we kind of are like coaches right we we have to coach them and teach them and mold them to understanding these things but also into doing it right cuz it takes I mean it's not you know a lot of things are super super easy to do but the things that we do are you know they

they're process right it's not it's not overnight and it takes time and you got to keep people engaged and you got to you know keep teaching them you know and keep developing them so by the time it's all said and done right they they look down and they see how far they've come right and you can project it and we can make all these numbers and all these graphs and all these you know illustrations and and all that stuff. But none of that really matters at the end of the day, right? Cuz it's all, you know, it really comes down to are you going to take what I'm saying to you and are you going to listen and are you going to implement it? And then when you have new feedback, right? Cuz we always have new feedback coming in. Are we going to implement that so we can pivot, right? And that's that's what it is. And and you know, it's it's so much more I I I'm not like a big dogmatic person,

but it really comes down to like you have to have an adviser that you can just listen to and get out of your own way, right? That's you have to have someone that you trust to just listen to what they're saying and just get out of your own way. Now, of course, they should explain it to you. You should understand what's going on, but those are the types of relationship you want. You want somebody that you, you know, you can call them up and ask them about this and and they'll be honest. Hey, oh, I don't know too much about that, but let me do some research for you, right? Let me look into it, right? Whatever it is, right? You know, so those are, I think, what people should be looking for when they're looking for um you know, building wealth and and how do we get into the process, guidance? Yeah. Yeah. It's is finding that. No, absolutely. And I think my biggest takeaway from what you said is that like there is

that there is some strategies out there and the problem is that the implementation of those strategies are scarce and you need to find the right network, the right team in order to get those implemented. But if you're paying that many like if you're if you feel like you are overpaying in taxes, well your gut feeling might be right and maybe it's time to start looking for that person. And everybody everyone's different. Maybe Jamal, you work really well with one type of client, one type of business or one type of professional, but another type not, right? So that's why you got to get a feel and and there's a lot of other people that that can provide and just finding that fit that works [snorts] well for you. Um, but the biggest takeaway is that look, there is some solutions to reduce that tax pain. Um, and it's just on your end to get that leverage, network, find other people, get out of your own way, change your mindset, and adapt what is available today. Right.

That was It was amazing. That was amazing. Did you use Did you use AI to do that? That [laughter] was me. That was me. That was amazing. Oh my god. You took everything I said and said, "Okay, that was beautiful." Um, yeah. I mean, that's that's what it is, right? It's finding people that you work with. Well, right. to be honest if you have a I mean if you have a any semidecent advisor right you should be able to get the strategies but it comes down to whether you like the person you trust them right so where you know and those are the type of relationships that I want is so they trust what I'm saying cuz in order to get the result that they want they're going to have to do things that they're not going to understand or fully be comfortable with right so that's that's where I'm like but also it's like you want to make sure you kind of figure that out. You want to make sure you got the right

person trusted before you just kind of start, you know, kind of, you know, cuz there's different people, right? And you got to get a feel for them and you got to, you know, and that's and that's what it is, you know, and cuz there's so many strategies we can utilize, right? There's capital gain strategies, there's investment strategies, charitable strategies, the trust. I'm sure Michael talked about the trust strategies last week, right? Yeah, for sure. you know, like I mean there's so there's so many different strategies, you know, real estate, obviously people love real estate, cost segregation, bonus depreciation, there's so much good stuff there, right? You know, this the salt taxes, the QBI deduction, all these different things that we can look into and we can start, you know, pulling different levers and stuff, but really it's like it's figuring out what what their temperament is and what they're good for. Fold your boat. Yeah. And just go at it and just take action, right? That's the the most important point there. Um, and and

Jamal, I want to that's the the ending question I asked everybody. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that. If this episode were to outlive you, right, on YouTube, which it probably is, hopefully it will. [laughter] What's the one lesson? Wow. What's the one lesson you want business owners to remember about building wealth that actually lasts? [snorts and sighs] The one question, the one lesson, one lesson, right, that you want, business owners to remember about building wealth at last, if that's the only thing left about Jamal Hensen on this planet. What's that one lesson? Wow, you just raised the stakes on me so high there. I would say the number one lesson is really [snorts] get around good people, people who are doing the things that you want to do, right? Um, good character people, right? Now, there's going to be issues with any any type of people, right? But, you know, you got to get around the right people, right? And you got [snorts] you have to be trusting, but you also have to,

you know, protect yourself at the same time. And um but get around people that want to grow, right? Get around people that want to learn. And you know the I I think really the key thing is be is find the right people and that's probably it's not even really about money at all, right? Which is so funny, right? [laughter] And it's the truth. I totally agree with that. Yeah. [clears throat] It's it's get around the right people, right? Obviously, you know, you want to be around successful people, right? people who are doing things but but really like you know just by getting that proximity around those people right and you know that's that's why people love when we come out and see them right and we travel in style like we come out [laughter] like we we I mean you know we we spend a we have good trips let me just say we have good trips we had a nice really nice dinner on the on the bay last night right you know um

we we go on these nice trips you know and we stay in nice hotels and we you know nice nice plane travel, right? And um they're cool things, but really it comes down to what the people it's it's all about the people, right? The company that you keep, right? And you know, not there's nothing that I Well, there's very few things that I say that I feel like are dogma, but you want to be around people who are very I I guess I I come from like a liberal arts, you know, school, right? So, I studied liberal arts, right? Latin and Greek and philosophy and English and all these things. So like I mean in theology so I mean I was studying all these things and concepts right but it all kind of was like you know I want to be around socratic people really smart people who are learn like they know how to learn like they want to learn and they know how to drive it like knowledge and they know how to

push right and they're constantly growing and they're not learning necessarily through reading all these books right they're learning through through practice right those are the people that I admire those are the people that I look up to right they're the people that and the people also right they're the people that take action massive action very quickly, right? Those are the people I look up to, right? It's not sitting on these ideas. It's like I'm waiting for the perfect time. It's I I've decided I'm going to do this, so now I'm going to go do this, right? That's all it is. And um but it it all comes down to you. If you want to be wealthy, like like I just said, right, with that story I was telling you, right? Like if that family gets out of their all they have to do is like get not get in their way and they're going to have $15 million. Now, would they do that? Would they do that on their own? I maybe maybe a few

million. I mean, because the thing is is they don't understand like but but that's just from knowing the right person and having someone pour into because that's not going to that's not going to happen overnight, right? That's going to come from me pouring into them on a bi-weekly, monthly basis, right? And understanding how these concepts work, how these different investment philosophies work, how these different things like how to pull these different levers. But really, it's finding the right people, having good people in your life, good character people, right? And you know, people, another thing too that's been on my mind and my heart heavily, right, is consistency, right? It's really just being consistent, right? You want consistent people in your life. Cuz when we're looking at the next 50 years, right, you know, you want to be covered. You want to have people are going to show up for you consistently, not somebody who's going to today they're here, tomorrow they're gone, right? Whether that's they're they're that much older, right, and they don't have

like a young adviser, right, on their team or it's or [clears throat] maybe they're just, you know, they're maybe they're doing some questionable things, right, where they might not be around, like they might get in trouble or something happens. But it [snorts] really all comes down to, you know, just being around the right people. And, you know, because a lot of the people I talk to there, I there is not a doubt I have in my mind that they're smarter than me. like they're very much smarter than me, but it's not so much an intelligence thing or anything once you start talking about these concepts and these ideas, right? I I'm very privileged to be around some of the circles and learn some of the things that I know, right? And I and I realize it. I just went to a family office conference in in Beverly Hills like a month ago and in September and I was walking around that room. I'm like, I am so privileged like that I actually get to be

here and I'm going to be at another one, you know, next month and one in Dana Point in December, Opal, and like I'm so privileged to be in these rooms with these people and, you know, I've seen, you know, super super wealthy people, right? And it's it really is all the same stuff that we're talking about. They've just been doing it longer, right? They've just been doing their timelines longer generally. And you know, they care about the same things, right? They care about taxes, right? Yeah. They they want And those are the people, right? The people who get to where they want to go, right? They're constantly learning. They're constantly growing. They're constantly adding new great people into their life who can add value to them. So, it's really it's just people, right? You want to make more money, like get around the right people, right? That was that was perfect. That was perfect, Jamal. So cliche. So cliche. No, [laughter] but it's the truth. It's the truth. It is. And it's often it's it's

often the little things that people forget, right, and people don't do. It's all about getting the right partnerships, being a good a good person that you would like to be associated with, finding the right team that could implement those strategies for you, and just leveling up. So, um, but Jamal, it's been incredible. I want to thank you for opening up and not being, uh, closed off and sharing the the real stuff, right? People want to hear. So, um, thank you for coming on and spitting some game on us. That was amazing. Uh for anyone [music] watching this, if you got a little nugget out of that, all we're asking is to subscribe to the [music] channel and share this to another business owner. You know, we've had tremendous amount of growth. We've grown by 1,000 subscribers in the past 30 days. So, it's on the come up and if you could participate in that, it will mean the [music] world to us and encourage us to make even more valuable content uh like like we

did right now. So, again, thank you Jamal. Thank you for listening to Beyond the Bottom Line and we'll see you guys next week.